selfhelp | [IC] Appointments Post

'tis the first promise ever I made to her, that I would not lie. [And he knew that was the price of having that relationship at all. He'd been glad to pay it. But the price has apparently expanded, and it's perhaps not anyone's fault as such. He's been trying, but it seems not hard enough.

Ah, the familiar sensation of failing to meet expectations. He'd thought he was done with that.

Loki manages a faint grimace, but he did mention it, so might as well just have it all out. Lay that last humiliation properly in the lineup of failures. And he just feels tired about it all now, fatigued beyond measure, as if this is now all inevitable and useless to fight.]

I was all right until the draft. That's why I thought... doesn't matter. [That's why he'd thought that it would be enough to just stay focused on Rogue and try to ignore the rest while he worked on a more permanent solution.] But after I came back from death, I simply...

[It's kind of hilarious, that this is what he's having the hardest time admitting. But it's something so basic and just humiliating.] I haven't been able to do my duty to her. [...he'd better clarify that, since terminology seems to have changed. Even more embarrassing. This is the one time he'd much rather be cute and use a euphemism.] I've had no interest in sex, as such. I'm just too... I'm too bloody tired.

[Now that is a pathetic excuse. While he can survive quite easily without sex, when it's there to be had he tends to take it with sheer, single-minded physicality, one of the few fundamental things he's had in common with the true Asgardians. Tired shouldn't really play into it. Hel, mortally wounded has barely stopped him in the past.]

I thought, a few days ago, that I might be recovering from this... ridiculous melancholy. I felt like kissing a bit. [And that had seemed to make Rogue happy. That had been a nice evening. He'd nearly felt normal. Then he laughs, sharply.] A bit too much, it would seem.

[...Ah. Well, the phrase was kind of self-explanatory, albeit outdated. There's an awkward pause as Billy considers that, focusing on wrapping a long, slim bandage around the first cleaned foot. It's not that surprising, really- it isn't as if he'd jumped into bed with Teddy right after the draft, and even for a while afterwards, sexual intimacy had taken a back burner in favour of comfort and cuddling, even well after he'd physically recovered. It was hard to get hot and heavy when your lungs occasionally forgot how to breathe.

But as ever they'd worked on it together. Thus, it begs the question-]

'Duty', you said... had she been pressuring you for it?

[Because if he had to choose a word for sex, 'duty' would not be it. It had never been an obligation so much as a perk to his relationship, so hearing it called such is... weird.]

[He sits up for a moment, voice sharp:] No. Of course not.

[Then just sort of deflates again, dropping back with a quiet thump.] Never.

[That is just as unthinkable as there being lies between them, at this point. He cannot conceive of a world where Rogue would treat him in that fashion. If it ever happened, he'd probably take it as evidence that some sort of shift had occurred until proven otherwise.

It's hard to explain any of this, but it feels important. He'd been so disinterested in everything, and just when he started to recover, this had happened. Bad timing? He doesn't know. It probably doesn't matter at this point either.

As he thinks, he begins picking at a hangnail again. Then carefully curls his fingers into loose fists.]

I still don't. Want to. [It wasn't as if kissing Eugene had been some sort of hot and heavy, clothes-tearing thing. It had just been... nice. Just as dancing with Rogue a few days before had been nice, but in a slightly different way.

He rubs his eyes, wishing he could just make sense of this. Or that he could just fix himself the way he'd fix any broken object. He has one idea, but he knows better than to ask Billy's help with collecting the crystals that would be necessary for the spell. Billy would want to know why, and Billy knows enough magic that he'd be able to sniff out a lie easily.]

I merely... I want to feel normal. [Well, as normal as he ever gets.]

Edited 2014-07-17 15:50 (UTC)

[Billy hadn't thought that she would, but that's the sort of question that has to be asked to get the full story. He's glad, though, even if it means more blame is on Loki again.

It's messy, though. This is all so, so messy.

He finishes with the first foot and moves on to the next, avoiding looking at Loki now. At least the other man won't know one way or the other.]

I know it's hard to wait for things to change... to go back to normal. And the thought that things might never be normal again makes it even scarier. But if you let your impatience for it damage your relationships, you might break something that can't be fixed.

[He laughs.] I already did, didn't I?

[Then he shakes his head, slowly back and forth.] Impatience isn't the problem. [He hadn't kissed Eugene for something so simply stated as a desire to feel normal. He'd ultimately kissed the man because he'd liked him, and wanted to do it. Which was no doubt immeasurably worse.

So then what is the problem? If he can define the problem at hand, then he can try to eradicate it.]

I think it's a bit of the problem. I mean... you're desperate to feel better, aren't you? To be better. You said yourself- you want to be normal. You want to... do your duty, or whatever. But if Rogue isn't the one pressuring you, then the one who's in a hurry for it is you.

[He winces as he plucks free another splinter. Ugh, that's a mess.]

What do you think is the problem?

[He falls silent for a moment.] I suppose I should say that the problem is me. There is something wrong with me. Something that means I will never be enough. I don't know what. But if I knew, I would excise the flaw like a tumor and cast it out.

[He sighs.] And I do think that. Satisfaction is not in my nature. I will always want more than I have.

[And perhaps that means this was always doomed to failure. Later, when he doesn't feel so completely depressed, he will be disgusted by his own defeatist thinking. Loki always has a plan, after all. One shoulder moves in a faint shrug.] There are very few people that can cause me to feel safe. Rogue does. And so does Eugene.

[And he wants to keep all of these people. It's that greedy nature. Not that he's expecting any understanding or sympathy on that count. He's gotten the impression that by human standards, one person is supposed to fulfill every need, and if it doesn't then that is considered bad and wrong.

Well, he's been bad and wrong on Asgard. Midgard too, really. No one is surprised.]

[Billy's quiet for a moment after that, silently winding another bandage around Loki's second foot. There's something wrong with... a lot of that. Not Loki himself, necessarily, but the words. He's not comfortable with it at all. People are so different- what they want, what they need, what they thrive on or starve without. If people weren't unique in so many ways, they wouldn't be near as interesting. Gods or demi-gods or aliens or whatever aren't exempt from that, either.]

...Some people... aren't meant to be monogamous.

[He says it matter-of-factly, shifting back and washing his hands off in the bowl of water. He hates the feel and look of blood on his hands, and he's trying not to let them shake now. He's not done, he needs to deal with the rest, and- if he's not doing something with his hands, he'll have to think too much about what's happening here. He's not ready for that.]

It isn't that there's anything wrong with you. Or rather, if there is, it isn't that. Open relationships exist on Earth, and some people are fine with it. Threesomes, too- arrangements between couples to hook up all together- it's okay to want more if you're not satisfied. But that sort of relationship means you need to be completely open- before you do anything beyond your partner. They need to be okay with it for it to work. That's why it's... cheating. You cheat your partner out of what they thought the relationship meant to you.

[He's silent for a long moment as he mulls that over. Finally, he says, very quietly:]

I'd gotten the impression humans simply didn't do that. At least not in proper--

[No. Old habits die hard. Old ways of thinking die even harder when they've been ingrained for so long.]

In relationships with women.

[It's not as if he's spent a lot of time observing the social niceties of mortals. He never had a reason to care until now. It's always been this vague impression of a man with one wife (or two, but they seem to not do that so much any more) and if you want to get him in trouble, get him in bed with another man or an animal and there you go. All he's really had to go on for mortals of this time has been observation, in which Jack and Eugene are the only non-monogamous couple and he'd just put that down under the mental heading of 'things ~~perverts~~ men who sleep with men can do but obliviously even then it's unusual.'

Even everything he's read has really just been about monogamy, with anyone having an outside relationship portrayed as misguided or downright villainous.]

It's different, where I'm from. [He shrugs. Rogue had made her distaste for the way things are done in Asgard clear, and really, if they were wrong about so many other things, it had seemed a proper assumption that they'd been wrong about that, too. That he should try to forge his own way and do better there, as well.]

I thought I could do it. For her.

[But he couldn't. Billy knows he doesn't have to say it, but the words are on the tip of his tongue, nonetheless. It's so hard to fathom, this... betrayal. The idea that the person you love isn't enough. It's been years and he's never wanted anyone but Teddy; even the enforced Malnosso shifts couldn't change that. His gaze shifts to the ring on his finger, wincing as he notices blood caught in the runes carved into the gold. He'll have to wash it really well when he gets home.

Dammit. Dammit. He's not equipped for this.]

"For her"... I'm sure it's hurt her to find out that she's not enough to satisfy you.

[There's always two sides to this coin. For someone who already has understandable issues about relationships, it must have been so much worse. No wonder she walked.]

[His lips curl in a slight snarl. It's the closest he can get to anger right now, as thoroughly as he has exhausted himself. If he had a drop energy left in him, he'd be shredding the couch.] I am not unsatisfied.

[Billy looks up at that, cautious but unafraid of the snarl.]

"Satisfaction is not in my nature." Your own words.

Hah, he will batter me with my own words.

[He pinches the bridge of his nose, trying to find a way to explain. Because he knows how he feels, but yes, he reminds himself, it's not as if anyone else knows how he feels. Which is probably for the best considering how often "how do I feel?" can be answered with "like stabbing someone in the neck."

Though this is not one of those times, it should be noted. He's too taken up by feeling generally terrible for turning any of it outward yet.]

I am not unsatisfied with Rogue. With anything about her. With anything about us. She has given me more than I could have ever hoped to have.

[He huffs a laugh.] I want all I can take from the world.

That's what I mean, though. You can say as much as you want that you're not unsatisfied with her, but the fact is that you're not satisfied with just her, either. I don't think there's any way to explain that to your partner without making them wonder why they're not enough to make the one they love completely happy. It's an unfortunate side-effect of a partnership.

[And most people - human, mutant, immortal, whatever - can't just shrug that sort of thing off. It hurts, and that uncertainty sticks.]

I find the idea that a single person could contain and provide all of one's happiness... frightening.

[He shrugs one shoulder. He hated Odin. But he'd still seen what Frigga's death had done to the bastard. He knows what it is to have nothing, himself. He knows what it is to lose everything. And nothing lasts forever.]

There is part of me, that is selfish and jealous, that would like to think I would want to be the world entire, for Rogue. But then I think I might crack under the strain. [The one time it had been just him supporting her entirely, he had become incredibly depressed, and he remembers it keenly. It had been a learning experience for him. Perhaps it would be difference, if she was able to care for him as he did her during that time, but it doesn't quite work out in his mind.]

No... that's not right. I didn't phrase that right. [Billy shakes his head, lips pursed tightly.] You can't be someone else's world. It's wrong, it's... limiting. I could never be that for Teddy- that was proven when I lost control of my magic, when I created that... false version of him. When I took everything out of Teddy that wasn't related to me, it meant he wasn't Teddy anymore. That thing was empty, and it sapped all the joy out of both of us.

[It's hard, still, thinking back to that time. But necessary.]

People need other people. As friends, as family, as lovers, as all of them. You should want more than Rogue just as much as she should want more than you. But humans compartmentalize and define anything and everything. For the average person, when someone is defined as "lover", you don't get to call anyone else that unless the relationship is over or you're cheating. And that's what hurts the most- realizing that what you thought about your world was true is suddenly a lie. That this person who was a huge part of your world wanted more than you could give.

[Loki listens carefully, and does his best to understand. If nothing else, understanding, even if he does not agree, means being able to understand the humans better, and there's a whole plethora of reasons that is useful. (Not the least of which is understanding the situation between himself and Rogue.)

So, all right. He can understand this sort of jealousy. He is a jealous man by nature, though something doesn't make sense in all of this. He just kissed Eugene. He would still not call the man more than a close friend; he was still trying to keep the faith Rogue would want, and Eugene had made it clear he didn't want to cause that sort of trouble either.]

...Eugene isn't my lover. There was a bit of kissing. [Seriously, is that all it takes? Well, then again, it's not as if anyone he's spoken with has been impressed with how Asgard does things, so maybe that's wrong too, but... he doesn't touch people that often willingly, so when he does it's important to him. Does this mean he'd also be in the same trouble for holding hands with Eugene, for curling up with Jack while the man reads to him?

He pinches the bridge of his nose. Yes, he knows now this is how humans do things. He's not an idiot, he can observe. But this is the first time he's ever discussed this sort of thing with someone. It wasn't a conversation he was going to have with Rogue, for obvious reasons.

And to a certain extent, trying to discuss this from a more intellectual standpoint is, for the moment, letting him set aside the weight of emotion. It's a relief. He'd rather deal with it this way.]

One person is not supposed to be one's entire world. But one person is supposed to be able to fulfill all of one's sexual--nay, physical--desires? And be the only person one is allowed to love.

...ever.

[Even if he could see, he'd be staring off into space on this one. He's trying to imagine that, for an entire lifetime, which for him is far longer than a human's. He's observed it, read it, but actually laying it out as a point of discussion is a very different feeling from just having comprehended it as an observation. Saying something has power. And in this context, means really thinking about it.

(The same way, really, that being forced over and over to justify why he wants the throne of Asgard has forced him into an unpleasant intellectual corner and caused a certain amount of self examination, if not too much.)

On one hand, obviously, he can like that idea. He thirsts for the attention of it. He likes the notion of someone being fixed entirely on him in such a way, with no one else being good enough. It's intensely flattering. But he's been in a real relationship for over a year now. When you add in all the less pleasant bits that ultimately are the ugly skeleton that makes the thing work, he knows it's not some sort of easy, one-way thing. Not when it's an actual relationship, which admittedly has its own rewards. Even if the other way would be easier, safer, and much less exhausting.

Finally he says:]

Well.

[Beat.]

So many human novels make more sense now, I suppose.

No. You're still missing the point.

[Billy shakes his head again, unable to help himself even though Loki can't see it. This is harder than he'd like it to be, but the concept of love itself - and all its many, many nuances - are far from simple to begin with. Experiencing them is hard enough. Explaining them doubly so.]

It isn't that you're expected to only love one person. It's that you're expected, when you're in a relationship, to discuss this kind of thing with your partner before you do anything about it. Being honest with your partner doesn't just mean you tell them when you screw up. It means telling them what you want, what you need, before you do anything. Because if you really love someone, you should want to see if they're okay with you being intimate with somebody else before you so much as touch them. And if they really love you, they should hear you out and give you an honest answer even- or especially- if they're not okay with it. From there, you talk it out- you decide, together, as partners, if one of you has to give, or if you can compromise, or if you're better off separating. That's what it means to be in a relationship. You can't just pull a third person into it and hope for the best.

[The fact that Loki called it "a bit of kissing", like that's nothing, is already worrisome. But with him reacting to Rogue leaving, like he... what? Expected her to be okay with it? To forgive him? Like it was a shock?

He just can't fathom a world where this would be okay.]

[He rubs his forehead.] You seem to assume this was some sort of well-thought-out plan on my part. I was drunk, Billy. This was not something I had any sort of sober intention of doing.

[Being intimate? What kind of kissing does Billy think they were doing? Something below the belt?] Kissing. Drunken kissing. Kissing. I'm not dragging Eugene into my relationship and I certainly wasn't intimate with him.

[He can't quite decide if he's feeling exasperated or just upset again. A bit of both.] I made a mistake, I realized it once my headache had retreated enough that I could think, and then I admitted to my lady what I had done and apologized to her.

No, see- that's the thing. You can't make excuses. You can't make light of it. It isn't just kissing, and being drunk doesn't make it any better than if you'd been sober. How is kissing not intimate? It's obviously intimate enough to have upset Rogue. Do you think her reaction was irrational because you didn't take things further?

Edited 2014-07-26 08:22 (UTC)

[How is he making light of this? It's frustrating. He only really felt bad about it because he'd realized it would hurt Rogue's feelings to begin with, not because he thought there was anything intrinsically wrong with the situation. And then he's far more upset by her leaving than anything else, and by there being something about him that is apparently a problem, only now he's not even certain about that.] I am not making light, nor making excuses. But I also think it important that this was not a thing... premeditated.

[He's hurt plenty of people very intentionally, and it's very, very different. He also didn't care if they were hurt. It's always the miscalculations and mistakes that come back to bite him in the end.

He rubs his eyes again.] I am making no judgments on the rationality of anything. [He knows a verbal trap when he hears one, kid.] I realized Rogue would be upset when I thought about it later, because she and I view these things very differently. I think she would agree with you that kissing is an intimate thing. I don't. It is but bodies, Billy. Unless this is bared [He presses his hand over his heart.] how is that intimate?

[And it wasn't, this time. There wasn't anything all that emotional in it, other than the attraction of being around someone he likes and feeling warmly comfortable.]

I am trying to be understanding. I do not think she is wrong, to feel as she does. [Snort.] Emotion isn't a thing of rationality.

People do idiotic things whilst drunk all the time. I think I also peed in someone's flowerbed with Thor. And he broke the fountain. It always sounds like such a good idea at the time. [Billy, have you never been drunk? But the point is really not that those things are okay, but that it should be taken into account when the apology is later made. It's the acknowledgment of Yes you were an idiot and should feel bad, but I know you would not do such a thing sober. It is a small but important difference.] It is the difference between 'I made a mistake and for that I am sorry' and 'I set out deliberately to cause ill.'

[He suddenly quiets, shoulders slumping.] And yes, I am well aware, the sort of irreparable damage a mistake can do.

[And that is a burden of guilt he will probably never lose. But as melodramatic as he tends to be, he is not quite so childish to think that there is any point in making loud noises about Never Making Mistakes Again. Mistakes are an inevitability as long as one lives. It's trying to best deal with them and minimize their impact. This one, he definitely missed the boat on.

But at least no one got stabbed through the heart in a literal sense this time, so yay?]

Edited 2014-07-26 14:16 (UTC)

[He can still hear it, though- excuses, justification, "it could be this much worse". And yeah, it could be. But 'worse' isn't what happened. And what happened was plenty.

He's not even going to touch on the drunk-as-an-excuse bit. No wonder Teddy used to fuss when he got even a little tipsy during the holidays; he's probably seen plenty of this situation during his party years. If nothing else this'll make it way more easy to stay clear of alcohol for a long, long time.]

Is that why you thought it was a good idea to go out in the woods and hurt yourself? Because it's just a body?

[Speaking of terrible decisions. Although he seriously doubts that Loki ever considered the notion to be a good anything.]

[The mighty drinking culture of Asgard should never be underestimated. There's so much of home still deeply embedded in Loki's spirit and he never even realizes it.]

No. That isn't what happened, really.

[He shrugs.]

I was upset. I went out. [I didn't want to accidentally blow up my cat. It just doesn't sound good, even thinking it.] I continued on until I was exhausted, and then realized I had no idea where I was.

It was so quiet.

[Not thinking about it, he begins to nibble at one fingernail, a strangely nervous little gesture.] So very quiet.

I... panicked.

[He takes in a slightly unsteady breath.] I haven't felt that way in a long time. Not since before I was sent home. I thought I'd outgrown that... sickness. And Rogue was always there, before.

[Only Loki would call trauma a 'sickness'.]

So will you stop poking at your nails, or do I have to get you ten band-aids, too?

[Actually, he's pretty sure that the first aid kit has those little scissors in it. Maybe he can take care of those hangnails when he's dealt with the more serious injuries.]

[But he's a ~~cheerleader~~ god, that makes everything totally different. A+ logic.

Loki drops his hands to his lap, suddenly self-conscious. He smooths his thumb over the fingernail he was worrying at. His voice is perhaps surprisingly small:]

It is broken. It catches.

[Now he's just starting to feel like a worthless fool. It's a rest stop on the way to embarrassed and angry, but he doesn't have nearly enough energy for that right now. Which is probably for the best.]

My apologies for bothering you.

[Action, June 24]

[Action, June 24]

[Action, June 24]

[Action, June 24]

[Action, June 24]

[Action, June 24]

[Action, June 24]

[Action, June 24]

Re: [Action, June 24]

[Action, June 24]

[Action, June 24]

[Action, June 24]

[Action, June 24]

[Action, June 24]

[Action, June 24]

[Action, June 24]

[Action, June 24] sorry for the wall of text, he's thinking. XD

[Action, June 24] gosh loki no one cares

[Action, June 24] :'( But my precious manpain

[Action, June 24] no one likes manpain

[Action, June 24] Batman likes manpain :'(

[Action, June 24] batman is a dick

[Action, June 24] I can't argue with this statement.

[Action, June 24]

[Action, June 24]