selfhelp | [IC] Appointments Post

No. You're still missing the point.

[Billy shakes his head again, unable to help himself even though Loki can't see it. This is harder than he'd like it to be, but the concept of love itself - and all its many, many nuances - are far from simple to begin with. Experiencing them is hard enough. Explaining them doubly so.]

It isn't that you're expected to only love one person. It's that you're expected, when you're in a relationship, to discuss this kind of thing with your partner before you do anything about it. Being honest with your partner doesn't just mean you tell them when you screw up. It means telling them what you want, what you need, before you do anything. Because if you really love someone, you should want to see if they're okay with you being intimate with somebody else before you so much as touch them. And if they really love you, they should hear you out and give you an honest answer even- or especially- if they're not okay with it. From there, you talk it out- you decide, together, as partners, if one of you has to give, or if you can compromise, or if you're better off separating. That's what it means to be in a relationship. You can't just pull a third person into it and hope for the best.

[The fact that Loki called it "a bit of kissing", like that's nothing, is already worrisome. But with him reacting to Rogue leaving, like he... what? Expected her to be okay with it? To forgive him? Like it was a shock?

He just can't fathom a world where this would be okay.]

[He rubs his forehead.] You seem to assume this was some sort of well-thought-out plan on my part. I was drunk, Billy. This was not something I had any sort of sober intention of doing.

[Being intimate? What kind of kissing does Billy think they were doing? Something below the belt?] Kissing. Drunken kissing. Kissing. I'm not dragging Eugene into my relationship and I certainly wasn't intimate with him.

[He can't quite decide if he's feeling exasperated or just upset again. A bit of both.] I made a mistake, I realized it once my headache had retreated enough that I could think, and then I admitted to my lady what I had done and apologized to her.

No, see- that's the thing. You can't make excuses. You can't make light of it. It isn't just kissing, and being drunk doesn't make it any better than if you'd been sober. How is kissing not intimate? It's obviously intimate enough to have upset Rogue. Do you think her reaction was irrational because you didn't take things further?

Edited 2014-07-26 08:22 (UTC)

[How is he making light of this? It's frustrating. He only really felt bad about it because he'd realized it would hurt Rogue's feelings to begin with, not because he thought there was anything intrinsically wrong with the situation. And then he's far more upset by her leaving than anything else, and by there being something about him that is apparently a problem, only now he's not even certain about that.] I am not making light, nor making excuses. But I also think it important that this was not a thing... premeditated.

[He's hurt plenty of people very intentionally, and it's very, very different. He also didn't care if they were hurt. It's always the miscalculations and mistakes that come back to bite him in the end.

He rubs his eyes again.] I am making no judgments on the rationality of anything. [He knows a verbal trap when he hears one, kid.] I realized Rogue would be upset when I thought about it later, because she and I view these things very differently. I think she would agree with you that kissing is an intimate thing. I don't. It is but bodies, Billy. Unless this is bared [He presses his hand over his heart.] how is that intimate?

[And it wasn't, this time. There wasn't anything all that emotional in it, other than the attraction of being around someone he likes and feeling warmly comfortable.]

I am trying to be understanding. I do not think she is wrong, to feel as she does. [Snort.] Emotion isn't a thing of rationality.

People do idiotic things whilst drunk all the time. I think I also peed in someone's flowerbed with Thor. And he broke the fountain. It always sounds like such a good idea at the time. [Billy, have you never been drunk? But the point is really not that those things are okay, but that it should be taken into account when the apology is later made. It's the acknowledgment of Yes you were an idiot and should feel bad, but I know you would not do such a thing sober. It is a small but important difference.] It is the difference between 'I made a mistake and for that I am sorry' and 'I set out deliberately to cause ill.'

[He suddenly quiets, shoulders slumping.] And yes, I am well aware, the sort of irreparable damage a mistake can do.

[And that is a burden of guilt he will probably never lose. But as melodramatic as he tends to be, he is not quite so childish to think that there is any point in making loud noises about Never Making Mistakes Again. Mistakes are an inevitability as long as one lives. It's trying to best deal with them and minimize their impact. This one, he definitely missed the boat on.

But at least no one got stabbed through the heart in a literal sense this time, so yay?]

Edited 2014-07-26 14:16 (UTC)

[He can still hear it, though- excuses, justification, "it could be this much worse". And yeah, it could be. But 'worse' isn't what happened. And what happened was plenty.

He's not even going to touch on the drunk-as-an-excuse bit. No wonder Teddy used to fuss when he got even a little tipsy during the holidays; he's probably seen plenty of this situation during his party years. If nothing else this'll make it way more easy to stay clear of alcohol for a long, long time.]

Is that why you thought it was a good idea to go out in the woods and hurt yourself? Because it's just a body?

[Speaking of terrible decisions. Although he seriously doubts that Loki ever considered the notion to be a good anything.]

[The mighty drinking culture of Asgard should never be underestimated. There's so much of home still deeply embedded in Loki's spirit and he never even realizes it.]

No. That isn't what happened, really.

[He shrugs.]

I was upset. I went out. [I didn't want to accidentally blow up my cat. It just doesn't sound good, even thinking it.] I continued on until I was exhausted, and then realized I had no idea where I was.

It was so quiet.

[Not thinking about it, he begins to nibble at one fingernail, a strangely nervous little gesture.] So very quiet.

I... panicked.

[He takes in a slightly unsteady breath.] I haven't felt that way in a long time. Not since before I was sent home. I thought I'd outgrown that... sickness. And Rogue was always there, before.

[Only Loki would call trauma a 'sickness'.]

So will you stop poking at your nails, or do I have to get you ten band-aids, too?

[Actually, he's pretty sure that the first aid kit has those little scissors in it. Maybe he can take care of those hangnails when he's dealt with the more serious injuries.]

[But he's a ~~cheerleader~~ god, that makes everything totally different. A+ logic.

Loki drops his hands to his lap, suddenly self-conscious. He smooths his thumb over the fingernail he was worrying at. His voice is perhaps surprisingly small:]

It is broken. It catches.

[Now he's just starting to feel like a worthless fool. It's a rest stop on the way to embarrassed and angry, but he doesn't have nearly enough energy for that right now. Which is probably for the best.]

My apologies for bothering you.

[SSSSSIIIIIIIGH, god, this entire conversation is a perpetual cross between wanting to punch Loki and hug him. The urge to do both varies in degrees with each passing sentence. Dammit, dammit.]

You're not... bothering me. But I'm kind of pissed that you'd do this to Rogue, and I'm kind of socially obligated to call you trash and tell her to dump you, but I'm also kind of your brother and doomed to support you no matter what because that's what family does, and- do you see my rock-and-hard-place situation, here? Just...

[He sighs out loud this time, slightly exasperated, and gives Loki's shoulder a nudge, trying to get him to lean forward, away from the back of the chair.]

I'm upset because you're an idiot for wrecking a good thing you both had, and you obviously have no idea how to deal with it in a remotely healthy way. But I'm also not leaving, so shut up with that kind of talk.

[Trash. He feels like trash. When nudged, he leans forward, not really of a mind to fight direction.

He laughs.]

Well, didn't you hear, Billy? I destroy everything I touch.

[Screw you, Tony Stark. He puts his face in his hands.]

I couldn't even follow her. She was so upset, her powers-- [Her teleporting away. Definitely not a good thing. He's only seen that happen a few times, and this is the first time it was his fault.] I would have only made it worse. I did that to her.

So if you would like to call me trash, I shan't disagree. [His fingers tighten on his hair.]

[SSSSSSIIII- okay, no. But it's hard not to. Billy bites his lip and focuses on urging off the shirt, gently peeling it free of the drying blood from all those scratches. What he really needs is a shower, but Billy's not prepared to mother him that much, and he can't imagine Loki would welcome it. Cleaning the cuts and getting him a fresh shirt will have to do for now.]

I don't want any of this, for the record. And I'll see if I can find her as soon as we're done here. [She shouldn't be alone any more than Loki does, but he figures she has more people to rely on than Loki himself. It all depends on whether or not she'd go to any of them.] But yeah, you guys should... take some time. Space helps, sometimes.

[He doesn't resist, and helps only passively.] I... yes, that would be good, I think.

I don't see why it would help. She walked away. I don't expect her to come back. [Though he'll... figure out a plan. Something. Once he's had some time to just think.

He takes a few deep breaths, briefly hugging his arms to his chest. His voice is small when he asks:] Am I... going to start having attacks of that... insanity again?

[He'd started off thinking the situation couldn't get worse, and then realized that yes, it could, and that would be how. So it might well happen.]

People walk away from problems when they're pissed, Loki. It's a thing. It doesn't mean "leave me alone forever", it just means they need to get the hell away from you for a while.

[He worries his bottom lip a bit, unsure. What the hell does that even mean?]

What... insanity?

[He knows that, but this is different. Because he knows if he ever lied to Rogue, she would quite literally walk away. He fears this was similar. He's also not entirely certain how to explain it, and the whole thing is making him feel a terrible sort of fatigue.] Not if she believes I willfully broke my word.

[Oh... right. Billy had never known about that. No one had known, expect for Rogue, who had kept faith on the topic, and Adele, who was no longer here. Tony had perhaps guessed, but he, too, was long since gone.

It's too late now. He's mentioned it. And with everything else that's come rushing out this evening, he might as well just have that out too. For once in his life he's not of a mood to keep things close. Let him have all these humiliating secrets out in a self-flagellating burst.]

Something that plagued me, the first time I was here. [He puts his face in his hands, taking a deep breath.] After I'd had my mouth sewn shut again. Rogue called them... yes, that's it. Panic attacks.

Edited 2014-08-05 14:33 (UTC)

...Ah.

[Well. At least he can sympathize with that one, too, though he feels another wave of discomfort at the way it was described. Filing that away in the list of Things Loki Says/Believes that are Not Okay.]

Panic attacks have nothing to do with insanity. They're completely normal for people who have gone through something terrible.

[He shrugs his shoulders slightly.] Rogue said much the same to me.

I have not known anyone in Asgard to be so afflicted. Nor have such fits of melancholy. [The 'it happens to everyone' thing sounds nice, but to him it sounds more like it happens to humans. Some humans are all right and everything--he's dating one, after all, and calls another little brother--but he's not human and doesn't want to be like one considering how small and weak they are in comparison.

This is not a commonality he wants at all.]

I seriously doubt that everyone in Asgard is immune to emotional trauma. But from what I understand, your society is so dudebro macho that no one can admit it.

[And the normalcy of that is more than likely why Loki dances around it, himself. God. He knows Earth is screwed up in a million ways but at least there's some variety in how people handle their problems.]

...what's a dudebro?

[Well, isn't this a nice distraction from feeling absolutely miserable.]

...Like...

[Billy gestures vaguely, but that won't help with Loki much. Uh.

Jock? Slang. Macho? Slang. Douche? Tempting.]

Kind of... a really masculine guy obsessed with Being A Man, drinking, and getting laid. They're basically insecure assholes who won't admit they're insecure assholes.

Oh yes, that is quite accurate.

[He smiles. It's not a nice smile.] The easiest way to pick a fight in Asgard it to imply a man is as a woman.

Thor nearly started a war with the Jotun because one of them called him a princess and told him to run away.

That... sounds a lot like something he'd do, yeah.

[Or at least he might in the past. He's not terribly reckless these days. Still, might be a good story for another day.]

Anyway, my point is that just because you people can't admit you have feelings doesn't mean you don't. You're living proof of that, and you're not the only one.

[Loki doesn't have feelings. Just ask Steve Rogers and Tony Stark.

Really, he's the proof of that? He doesn't like anything about this conversation. Or likes it even less, now.]

I am not controlled by my emotions.

[He sounds borderline petulant. And come on, Mr. Bundle-of-Feels-Act-Now-Rationalize-Later. Well, mother did say he understands everyone but himself.]

I just... don't want it to happen again.

...I... okay. Not to point fingers? But we literally just had a conversation about how you drunkenly gave in to feelings you admitted to carrying beyond an experiment, and being drunk only makes you less in control, it doesn't make you imagine up feelings that don't exist.

[He presses a damp cloth to the scratches on Loki's chest, wiping at the blood and, in a way, trying to keep him there and grounded. He doubts any of this is what Loki wants to hear.]

So maybe they first step should be to get over yourself and be as honest with Mr. Silver Tongue as you are with Rogue. You're an emotional person, Loki, and you're sure as hell not fooling me.

[There is no one that Loki lies more to than himself. And he convinces himself quite neatly most days.

There's no nothing wrong with emotions as such, only the vulnerability of them. And he's well aware the most powerful weapon he ever had is his mind. He doesn't like to think it can be overridden in such a way, and so easily.

(This is probably why he's the king of rationalization.)

The problem is right now, he can't think of a convincing counter argument in light of what he's already said. Maybe if he weren't so tired. He scrubs his face with one hand.]

Being drunk doesn't count.

[That's a weak defense and he knows it.

Asgardians are generally passionate people. But there's also a very sweet array of acceptable displays of emotion for men, and Loki learned a long time ago, for example, that laughing is always smarter than crying.]

Then the feelings are the problem, yes? [Obviously. For many reasons.] If I'm driven to fits of madness or acts of great stupidity.

[He sighs.] I was prone to the most pathetic melancholies when I was younger. I kept myself busy. There is nothing to do here.

[He refrains, with some difficulty, from snapping at the first comment. Something about Loki's expression, perhaps. He doesn't have to be happy about it, but he doesn't want to have the same argument all over again. Hmm.]

Feelings don't have to be a problem. And sadness isn't pathetic, either. By themselves, emotions are just emotions. It's what you do with them, how you deal with them that causes those problems. Do you think that everyone who's ever dealt with depression is pathetic?

[IC] Appointments Post

[Action, June 24] gosh loki no one cares

[Action, June 24] :'( But my precious manpain

[Action, June 24] no one likes manpain

[Action, June 24] Batman likes manpain :'(

[Action, June 24] batman is a dick

[Action, June 24] I can't argue with this statement.

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[Action, June 24] all I could imagine with the punching is Loki making like Anthi in Utena. /gasp

[Action, June 24] I have never actually watched the show lol

[Action, June 24] The one at 0:20 is the best https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N26PiBSqRns

[Action, June 24] that's a lot of slaps

[Action, June 24] Utena: slaps and people turning into cars and INCEST. Yuuup

[Action, June 24] I remember the cars thing. I saw the movie once. so confusing...

[Action, June 24] That's about right.

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