selfhelp | [IC] Appointments Post

I... hope that's true. It'll be good to see him again, that's for sure. I think he'll feel the same way.

[It's just a matter of waiting for that to happen, which is seriously a bitch and a half.]

I find the idea that a single person could contain and provide all of one's happiness... frightening.

[He shrugs one shoulder. He hated Odin. But he'd still seen what Frigga's death had done to the bastard. He knows what it is to have nothing, himself. He knows what it is to lose everything. And nothing lasts forever.]

There is part of me, that is selfish and jealous, that would like to think I would want to be the world entire, for Rogue. But then I think I might crack under the strain. [The one time it had been just him supporting her entirely, he had become incredibly depressed, and he remembers it keenly. It had been a learning experience for him. Perhaps it would be difference, if she was able to care for him as he did her during that time, but it doesn't quite work out in his mind.]

I hope so. [They'd kind of had an awful argument right before he died, yay perfect timing.] But II can't imagine it's so easy, comin' back from the dead.

[It hasn't been for them, after all.]

No... that's not right. I didn't phrase that right. [Billy shakes his head, lips pursed tightly.] You can't be someone else's world. It's wrong, it's... limiting. I could never be that for Teddy- that was proven when I lost control of my magic, when I created that... false version of him. When I took everything out of Teddy that wasn't related to me, it meant he wasn't Teddy anymore. That thing was empty, and it sapped all the joy out of both of us.

[It's hard, still, thinking back to that time. But necessary.]

People need other people. As friends, as family, as lovers, as all of them. You should want more than Rogue just as much as she should want more than you. But humans compartmentalize and define anything and everything. For the average person, when someone is defined as "lover", you don't get to call anyone else that unless the relationship is over or you're cheating. And that's what hurts the most- realizing that what you thought about your world was true is suddenly a lie. That this person who was a huge part of your world wanted more than you could give.

Yeah... it really isn't.

[Great minds think alike?]

But he'll be okay... I'm sure. He's strong.

[Loki listens carefully, and does his best to understand. If nothing else, understanding, even if he does not agree, means being able to understand the humans better, and there's a whole plethora of reasons that is useful. (Not the least of which is understanding the situation between himself and Rogue.)

So, all right. He can understand this sort of jealousy. He is a jealous man by nature, though something doesn't make sense in all of this. He just kissed Eugene. He would still not call the man more than a close friend; he was still trying to keep the faith Rogue would want, and Eugene had made it clear he didn't want to cause that sort of trouble either.]

...Eugene isn't my lover. There was a bit of kissing. [Seriously, is that all it takes? Well, then again, it's not as if anyone he's spoken with has been impressed with how Asgard does things, so maybe that's wrong too, but... he doesn't touch people that often willingly, so when he does it's important to him. Does this mean he'd also be in the same trouble for holding hands with Eugene, for curling up with Jack while the man reads to him?

He pinches the bridge of his nose. Yes, he knows now this is how humans do things. He's not an idiot, he can observe. But this is the first time he's ever discussed this sort of thing with someone. It wasn't a conversation he was going to have with Rogue, for obvious reasons.

And to a certain extent, trying to discuss this from a more intellectual standpoint is, for the moment, letting him set aside the weight of emotion. It's a relief. He'd rather deal with it this way.]

One person is not supposed to be one's entire world. But one person is supposed to be able to fulfill all of one's sexual--nay, physical--desires? And be the only person one is allowed to love.

...ever.

[Even if he could see, he'd be staring off into space on this one. He's trying to imagine that, for an entire lifetime, which for him is far longer than a human's. He's observed it, read it, but actually laying it out as a point of discussion is a very different feeling from just having comprehended it as an observation. Saying something has power. And in this context, means really thinking about it.

(The same way, really, that being forced over and over to justify why he wants the throne of Asgard has forced him into an unpleasant intellectual corner and caused a certain amount of self examination, if not too much.)

On one hand, obviously, he can like that idea. He thirsts for the attention of it. He likes the notion of someone being fixed entirely on him in such a way, with no one else being good enough. It's intensely flattering. But he's been in a real relationship for over a year now. When you add in all the less pleasant bits that ultimately are the ugly skeleton that makes the thing work, he knows it's not some sort of easy, one-way thing. Not when it's an actual relationship, which admittedly has its own rewards. Even if the other way would be easier, safer, and much less exhausting.

Finally he says:]

Well.

[Beat.]

So many human novels make more sense now, I suppose.

He's got people who care about him. [She counters.] Don't you start thinkin' this is a matter of strength, Billy Kaplan. It ain't that simple. You don't get through somethin' like this 'cause you're strong an' other people are weak. You gotta work through it - that's one thing I know.

[So don't go starting thinking that you're weak, please. She's so tired of this stuff. Dying isn't something a body's supposed to just get over -- sometimes you have to let the people you trust help you. Goodness knows that's what she's trying to do too.]

No. You're still missing the point.

[Billy shakes his head again, unable to help himself even though Loki can't see it. This is harder than he'd like it to be, but the concept of love itself - and all its many, many nuances - are far from simple to begin with. Experiencing them is hard enough. Explaining them doubly so.]

It isn't that you're expected to only love one person. It's that you're expected, when you're in a relationship, to discuss this kind of thing with your partner before you do anything about it. Being honest with your partner doesn't just mean you tell them when you screw up. It means telling them what you want, what you need, before you do anything. Because if you really love someone, you should want to see if they're okay with you being intimate with somebody else before you so much as touch them. And if they really love you, they should hear you out and give you an honest answer even- or especially- if they're not okay with it. From there, you talk it out- you decide, together, as partners, if one of you has to give, or if you can compromise, or if you're better off separating. That's what it means to be in a relationship. You can't just pull a third person into it and hope for the best.

[The fact that Loki called it "a bit of kissing", like that's nothing, is already worrisome. But with him reacting to Rogue leaving, like he... what? Expected her to be okay with it? To forgive him? Like it was a shock?

He just can't fathom a world where this would be okay.]

[He rubs his forehead.] You seem to assume this was some sort of well-thought-out plan on my part. I was drunk, Billy. This was not something I had any sort of sober intention of doing.

[Being intimate? What kind of kissing does Billy think they were doing? Something below the belt?] Kissing. Drunken kissing. Kissing. I'm not dragging Eugene into my relationship and I certainly wasn't intimate with him.

[He can't quite decide if he's feeling exasperated or just upset again. A bit of both.] I made a mistake, I realized it once my headache had retreated enough that I could think, and then I admitted to my lady what I had done and apologized to her.

That's not- I mean, I think it helps. Being strong. Physically, or mentally- he's been through so much already, good and bad. And he hasn't dealt with it well, but- he's different. It's noticeable. So I guess I'm just... acknowledging it. That he's stronger than he was. Better at... you know. Handling stuff.

No, see- that's the thing. You can't make excuses. You can't make light of it. It isn't just kissing, and being drunk doesn't make it any better than if you'd been sober. How is kissing not intimate? It's obviously intimate enough to have upset Rogue. Do you think her reaction was irrational because you didn't take things further?

Edited 2014-07-26 08:22 (UTC)

[How is he making light of this? It's frustrating. He only really felt bad about it because he'd realized it would hurt Rogue's feelings to begin with, not because he thought there was anything intrinsically wrong with the situation. And then he's far more upset by her leaving than anything else, and by there being something about him that is apparently a problem, only now he's not even certain about that.] I am not making light, nor making excuses. But I also think it important that this was not a thing... premeditated.

[He's hurt plenty of people very intentionally, and it's very, very different. He also didn't care if they were hurt. It's always the miscalculations and mistakes that come back to bite him in the end.

He rubs his eyes again.] I am making no judgments on the rationality of anything. [He knows a verbal trap when he hears one, kid.] I realized Rogue would be upset when I thought about it later, because she and I view these things very differently. I think she would agree with you that kissing is an intimate thing. I don't. It is but bodies, Billy. Unless this is bared [He presses his hand over his heart.] how is that intimate?

[And it wasn't, this time. There wasn't anything all that emotional in it, other than the attraction of being around someone he likes and feeling warmly comfortable.]

I am trying to be understanding. I do not think she is wrong, to feel as she does. [Snort.] Emotion isn't a thing of rationality.

People do idiotic things whilst drunk all the time. I think I also peed in someone's flowerbed with Thor. And he broke the fountain. It always sounds like such a good idea at the time. [Billy, have you never been drunk? But the point is really not that those things are okay, but that it should be taken into account when the apology is later made. It's the acknowledgment of Yes you were an idiot and should feel bad, but I know you would not do such a thing sober. It is a small but important difference.] It is the difference between 'I made a mistake and for that I am sorry' and 'I set out deliberately to cause ill.'

[He suddenly quiets, shoulders slumping.] And yes, I am well aware, the sort of irreparable damage a mistake can do.

[And that is a burden of guilt he will probably never lose. But as melodramatic as he tends to be, he is not quite so childish to think that there is any point in making loud noises about Never Making Mistakes Again. Mistakes are an inevitability as long as one lives. It's trying to best deal with them and minimize their impact. This one, he definitely missed the boat on.

But at least no one got stabbed through the heart in a literal sense this time, so yay?]

Edited 2014-07-26 14:16 (UTC)

[...yeah, she has no faith in that, really. The rather horrific argument they had before he died might have something to do with that, but it certainly isn't something she wants to discuss with Billy.]

I hope you're right.

[She stands.]

I'm gonna go. But I hope you keep drawing.

Edited 2014-07-27 05:14 (UTC)

[They ripped his arm off.

He can't even imagine it. Thor, the mighty Thor, bested and downed in such a violent way, and his boyfriend had to see it, had to feel like it was his fault, even when it really wasn't. God, god... Teddy had heard about some of the horrors, dealt with some of them himself, but he'd never thought it was this bad. His heart thuds painfully in his chest, not just for Billy but for the image in his head, for Thor, for everyone who had to fight in such a way.

He can't even imagine it...

All he can do is let out a whispered "Oh my god..." before he tries to do something else for him. He shifts, as much as his clothes can let him, to be a little bigger, a little greener, a little more like Hulkling form. His arms easily cover Billy's smaller frame, and they keep him to his chest to let him cry as much as he needs to.

He keeps thinking he should say something to this, needs to say something... but he can't. All the words he want to say don't sound appropriate to what he just heard, the revelation that Thor had his arm ripped off... He feels useless, so he does all he can do.

He just holds him, a large hand stroking Billy's hair while he shut his eyes against the images in his head. He can't even imagine it...]

[For a while, Billy just cries. It's the first time he's let himself really cry since the draft; he'd been telling himself over and over that he'd be fine if he just sucked it up and tried to forget, if he kept reaching for it, peace of mind would eventually meet him in the middle somewhere. So far it hasn't worked, and it's never taken Billy Kaplan long to crack under the pressure.

He can feel Teddy shifting against him, getting bigger, and although he can't see the colour through his tears, he can tell by the size that his boyfriend changed to Hulkling in the middle of that painful silence, broken only by his own sobs. He feels a rush of gratefulness, his grip tightening, even as he trembles and chokes out another broken sound. He tries to swallow it, tries to let that strong, soothing presence ease the horror of those memories, if only to give Teddy some sign that he is helping, even just a little. It takes some time, but he finally manages to settle enough to speak again. It's quiet, somewhat hoarse, but his grip is still strong.]

I'm sorry... god, I'm so sorry...

[Sorry for being a mess, sorry for being unable to stop it, sorry for sharing that horrible memory? He's not even sure. He's felt the urge to apologize incessantly since he saw Thor die and admitting what happened hasn't done a thing for such inclinations.]

[Sorry... for what? Teddy wants to ask, but he's not sure he'll get a clear answer. Billy's been apologizing like this since they got back, and even on the draft. He shouldn't have to... and Teddy hates that he's stuck on this, hates that he thinks all of this is his fault when it isn't.

God, he hates this place and the people who run it. If he could see them and break their bones - oh, that day would only come too soon.

But as it stands, he can't do that. What he can do is be here for his boyfriend, know that he's needed, and do his best to be the best fiancé he can be for him. A thought occurs to him, and he lowers his head to speak quietly, though enough for Billy to hear.]

I feel like it's not really me you're apologizing to...

[Billy coughs out a brief laugh at that, the sound halfway a sob, and sniffs to try and disguise it. At least a sob is just more of the same; fake laughter isn't the nicest thing he could be offering Teddy right now.]

I don't... even know. So much has happened now that I regret...

[It feels like their abduction and his subsequent loss of magic control was just the starting point to their spiral into misery, with more downs than ups for more reasons than he can count. And while certain ups - the ring around his finger in particular - made it so that the downs couldn't overwhelm them entirely, they sure did their best to keep them a step away from drowning. And he's so, so tired of treading water without a foothold or a decent rest.]

We just left him there, Teddy... he died, and we left him because we couldn't fight. Because I couldn't cast one stupid spell. I'm no Avenger... I'm not even good enough to be a sidekick.

[Yeah, this is more about letting Billy spill out what's bothering him and what happened back on the draft. But this is getting too far into territory that Teddy doesn't want Billy going down - this dark road of feeling worthless. He's not going to let Billy travel that without a fight.

So he pulls back enough to put his hands on Billy's shoulders and look at his face, shrinking back down to his normal form to make it easier on him.]

Hey, stop. You said you got hit by one of those shift soldiers, right? The ones that kill your powers? Besides, you've only been at your magic for what, three weeks or so? It's the timing of this stupid war, not your... skill, or anything. I'd rather have you getting back into magic when you're comfortable doing it, not forcing yourself back into it. That's why I waited all that time.

[He lets out a small sigh.] Billy... I know this isn't going to make you feel instantly better or anything, and that's okay. Just take it one step at a time, all right? Don't feel like you have to... rush it just for me. But... you know what? I still think I proposed to a superhero. And I don't think I'm going to stop feeling that way any time soon.

[Billy falls into another bout of stubborn silence at that, quieter this time without tears or sniffling. His head is slightly bowed, and he can't quite bring himself to meet Teddy's gaze. Proposed to a superhero... but he hadn't even been using magic back then. He'd just been plain, ordinary helpless Billy Kaplan, who used to be - and was still trying to build up to again - someone who didn't care what others thought of him, but who always wanted to be more for his own sake. But more became a lot more, and that became too much, and now... now he has no idea. He's back to wanting more because he wasn't good enough, strong enough, to save his heroes.

At least... not Thor. And while the regret still burns at him, Teddy's right about one thing: rushing this will surely cause problems, like what had happened before. It's better this way. Even if it's not enough.

He chews nervously on his lower lip, then hesitantly lifts his head, just enough to meet Teddy's eyes for a moment.]

I think... I think I helped Cap get away, after. When we were running... my magic started working again. I put them to sleep.

[He'd passed out, then, but when he'd woken up it had been only an hour later instead of a week, and Steve was nowhere to be found but at least he hadn't been dead. That was... something, right?]

[He can still hear it, though- excuses, justification, "it could be this much worse". And yeah, it could be. But 'worse' isn't what happened. And what happened was plenty.

He's not even going to touch on the drunk-as-an-excuse bit. No wonder Teddy used to fuss when he got even a little tipsy during the holidays; he's probably seen plenty of this situation during his party years. If nothing else this'll make it way more easy to stay clear of alcohol for a long, long time.]

Is that why you thought it was a good idea to go out in the woods and hurt yourself? Because it's just a body?

[Speaking of terrible decisions. Although he seriously doubts that Loki ever considered the notion to be a good anything.]

I'll... keep trying. I can at least promise you that.

[He feels like he still said something wrong, there, but he's going in blind, and it was the best he could do. It's not like he has to convince her to believe what he does.

Either way, he offers her a wan smile, standing to see her out.]

Thanks... for coming. Really, this helped. I mean, I think it will, if I keep trying. And it was nice to see you.

[As a friend, rather than... well, whatever.]

[The mighty drinking culture of Asgard should never be underestimated. There's so much of home still deeply embedded in Loki's spirit and he never even realizes it.]

No. That isn't what happened, really.

[He shrugs.]

I was upset. I went out. [I didn't want to accidentally blow up my cat. It just doesn't sound good, even thinking it.] I continued on until I was exhausted, and then realized I had no idea where I was.

It was so quiet.

[Not thinking about it, he begins to nibble at one fingernail, a strangely nervous little gesture.] So very quiet.

I... panicked.

[He takes in a slightly unsteady breath.] I haven't felt that way in a long time. Not since before I was sent home. I thought I'd outgrown that... sickness. And Rogue was always there, before.

Billy... with mother here, I think I shall not come to your club after all.

But my thanks, for being welcoming.

[Anyone else from home, anyone at all, and he would not have hesitated. But he's already hurt mother so much, and it's only now that he realizes and regrets it. He will take this chance for everything it is worth.]

All right. [She nods and then gives him a brief, tired smile.] Glad it helped with somethin'. See you later, Billy.

[Only Loki would call trauma a 'sickness'.]

So will you stop poking at your nails, or do I have to get you ten band-aids, too?

[Actually, he's pretty sure that the first aid kit has those little scissors in it. Maybe he can take care of those hangnails when he's dealt with the more serious injuries.]

[IC] Appointments Post

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[Action, June 24]

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[Action, June 24]

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[Action, June 24] sorry for the wall of text, he's thinking. XD

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[Action, June 24] gosh loki no one cares

[Action, June 24] :'( But my precious manpain

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[Action, June 24] no one likes manpain

[Action, June 24] Batman likes manpain :'(

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[Action, May 30th] I'LL AGREE A LOT LESS QUICKLY...?

[Action, May 30th] I will accept this neutral ground

[Action, May 30th]

[Action, May 30th]

[Action, May 30th]

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[Action, June 24] batman is a dick

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[Action, June 24] I can't argue with this statement.

July 29, voice, locked (help the threads are multiplying!!!!)

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[Action, June 24]